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Curious to what measurements other people have..
Me
Top third ...2 1/2"
Middle third ...2"
Bottom third almost 3"
My Middle measurement (2") is on the small side compared to the other
measurements. This is why I know I would look better with a longer nose that's closer to the face ( Less of an angle ) with no upturn tip or drastic scoop.
I currently have no scoop (Happy about that) and a very small upturn tip (Want it brought down) and my nose juts out on a sharp angle (Hate this the most) plus the top of nose (Nasion) starts out very low (Also dislike )
It's all about the illusion of a longer nose which will kind of balance out my facial 3rd sections. Besides it will also make the distance between my lips and nose look
smaller which is a plus.
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The glabella although a distinct land mark when one has a skull in one's hand has a lot of 'wiggle room' as to where it is on each person's face. Besides, it's not really a visual landmark for people looking at you; the eyes are.
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I could tell you or I could SHOW you:  My middle third is the longest and my top third is the shortest but the difference is only a couple mm....but that makes a pretty big difference apparently. I envy your 2 inch middle third....I'd kill for that. The top and bottom thirds are easy to fix. To fix the top third you can get a hair transplant or simply wear your hair in a style that covers up the hairline, problem solved. To fix the bottom third you can just shorten the chin (or maxilla). But there is not a damn thing you can do to shorten the glabella to subnasal distance.
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Reniar sorry but I have lost track of who's who here (my fault) and have to ask if you are male or female.
in any regards my personal opinion is that females always look a little better with an upturned looking tip. Even males can benefit from a wee upturn look(obviously not to the same degree).
I think what you write makes alot of sense for the most part but you need to realize that a nose can be lengthened from the base (ala and columella brought down) to give you a better and more pleasant balance than just derotating the tip. I personally call derotating the tip "false lengthenning". True it does lengthen the bridge but the nose does not in reality become any longer vertically (as measured flat on the face.
This is why i use the term "upturn look" vs just "upturned". What this means is that in most cases the look should be acheived by rotating down the nasal base and NOT rotating the tip up. Unfortuneately rotating the tip is autopilot type default surgery.
As an example of this, look at Matt Damon. His silly looking nose just sits their way at the top and below there is this huge upper lip. He had a rhino the slighly turned the tip up making it look even more silly. hHis nose should instead have been rotated down killing 2 birds with one stone.
Post a profile of your face and I will morph what I mean.
And just to let you know I have a very similar problem with my nose/lip.
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yatterman, your glabella is lower than that.it's about 2mm's below the line there. most people usually think their glabella is higher than it is.
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omg yatterman, what are you 12? Get out and enjoy life! you are young and cute...let the PS research wait until you need it.
my 2 cents
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Persephone wrote:omg yatterman, what are you 12? Get out and enjoy life! you are young and cute...let the PS research wait until you need it.
Well im 23 but I look a bit older than that. Anyway having even thirds is not everything when it comes to face length and my face is the PERFECT example of that. My facial thirds are relatively balanced as you can see in the pic but my face is still perceived as long. It also isnt ALL about total face length (although that IS a major factor) beause I have measured some of my friends faces who are half a foot shorter than me who have faces that measure as longer than mine but their faces are not perceived as long while mine is. There are a lot of other variables when it comes to perceived face length such as: 1) The width of the head is a huge factor. If a face/head is narrow it will likely be seen a "long". 2) A long middle third is ALWAYS EXTREMELY bad while a long top or bottom third is often forgivable. 3) A "droopy" face (sagging midface, negative canthal tilt etc.) can give the illusion of a longer face. 4) A high radix makes the midface (thus the whole face) look longer. 5) If the face is gaunt it looks longer. 6) The inner pupillary distance (IPD) is also a big factor. If the IPD is short (less than 60mm) the face will look longer.
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Hi Yatterman Thanks for taking the time to respond and with pictures.. very nice. For me the middle 2" isn't such a good thing because it gives me a long lip (Distance between nose and upper lip). Plus it's a much bigger distance due to the ageing process and being I don't have your wonderful full lips. Thanks again :) yatterman1 wrote:I could tell you or I could SHOW you:
My middle third is the longest and my top third is the shortest but the difference is only a couple mm....but that makes a pretty big difference apparently. I envy your 2 inch middle third....I'd kill for that.
The top and bottom thirds are easy to fix. To fix the top third you can get a hair transplant or simply wear your hair in a style that covers up the hairline, problem solved. To fix the bottom third you can just shorten the chin (or maxilla). But there is not a damn thing you can do to shorten the glabella to subnasal distance.
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Hi Fixit I'm female but more of the down to earth type as they say ..LOL I'm not the girly girl feminine type at all and a upturn look wouldn't fit my being ...even if it did I'm not partial to it. Regarding what you say about the lengthened from the base I kind of understand you but still a little fuzzy on nose work..lingo and stuff. I just know what I want LOL I'm getting an analysis done and want to see what my options are with as little cutting (Open nosejob) as possible first . If I can achieve what I want without an open nose job I'll do it. If my only option is to get an open nosejob to get what I want then I will have to do it. Doing what I want will give me the look I want my nose to look like plus it will help with my long lip look which is worst due to age..ugh ! My face looks proportioned (Good bone structure so I been told) when looking at the whole face and nothing out of the norm per say and was considered extremely cute (Hated that term but hey it could be worst) in my younger days. No more but I've always been confident and not self-conscious 24/7 about my nose or long lip but do want to change it to something which would fit my overall looks netter. I know it's frustrating for everyone when there's no pictures when one is talking about their face..sorry. Thanks for the info on lengthened from the base option as I really never thought of that option. As for Matt Damon I didn't even know he had a nosejob and I always thought ugh when looking at his nose (My worst Nightmare) and thought he needed a nosejob LOL If he asked for that type of nose what was he thinking. Now I need to see his before picture lol fixit wrote:Reniar sorry but I have lost track of who's who here (my fault) and have to ask if you are male or female.
in any regards my personal opinion is that females always look a little better with an upturned looking tip. Even males can benefit from a wee upturn look(obviously not to the same degree).
I think what you write makes alot of sense for the most part but you need to realize that a nose can be lengthened from the base (ala and columella brought down) to give you a better and more pleasant balance than just derotating the tip. I personally call derotating the tip "false lengthenning". True it does lengthen the bridge but the nose does not in reality become any longer vertically (as measured flat on the face.
This is why i use the term "upturn look" vs just "upturned". What this means is that in most cases the look should be acheived by rotating down the nasal base and NOT rotating the tip up. Unfortuneately rotating the tip is autopilot type default surgery.
As an example of this, look at Matt Damon. His silly looking nose just sits their way at the top and below there is this huge upper lip. He had a rhino the slighly turned the tip up making it look even more silly. hHis nose should instead have been rotated down killing 2 birds with one stone.
Post a profile of your face and I will morph what I mean.
And just to let you know I have a very similar problem with my nose/lip.
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I see my little tutorial came in handy and you saved it. Thanks for finding it as when my computer crashed, so did my little tutorials. yatterman1 wrote:I could tell you or I could SHOW you: My middle third is the longest and my top third is the shortest but the difference is only a couple mm....but that makes a pretty big difference apparently. I envy your 2 inch middle third....I'd kill for that. The top and bottom thirds are easy to fix. To fix the top third you can get a hair transplant or simply wear your hair in a style that covers up the hairline, problem solved. To fix the bottom third you can just shorten the chin (or maxilla). But there is not a damn thing you can do to shorten the glabella to subnasal distance.
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There is some 'wiggle room' of where you can estimate the glabella line since it's not really a 'visual' landmark to the face. Like you can re-adust the line to divide face into 1/3ds. However, the line you suggest would be more near the root of the nose. The glabella itself is a bony landmark on a skull that is found superior to the root of the nose. Denton wrote:yatterman, your glabella is lower than that.it's about 2mm's below the line there. most people usually think their glabella is higher than it is.
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By the way, the 1/3rd rule is from Leonardo and Durer. It has to do with how a face can be DIVIDED into 3 EQUAL (vertical)sections. It's basically a guideline for drawing the face. I have NO IDEA HOW it became a DICTUM of plastic surgeons that a face divided into 3 equal parts equates to a 'beautiful' or 'balanced' face. Best of my knowledge, Leonardo never said that was so. One of my first analysis papers (for Art History) was analysis on Mona Lisa's face which is NOT divided into 'equal 1/3rds'. In fact on her face, Leonardo 'muddled' the borders of where one could draw those landmark lines as there is a lot of 'sfumato' (smokey mystique) to the under nose area and of course Mona Lisa's eye brows are shaved off so the glabella is not straight forward. Nor is the upper border of hairline because it was the fashion for women to shave it high. So, Leonardo himself, did not use what PSs use as a DICTUM. My analysis revealed that Leonardo used the golden ratio. But to demonstrate that, the relationships and angles need to be drawn in. He did other stuff in the painting too like playing around with the inherent 'blind spot' humans have where the brain extrapolates the existence of movement when there is none.
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MissJ wrote:There is some 'wiggle room' of where you can estimate the glabella line since it's not really a 'visual' landmark to the face. Like you can re-adust the line to divide face into 1/3ds.
However, the line you suggest would be more near the root of the nose. The glabella itself is a bony landmark on a skull that is found superior to the root of the nose.
Juat to clarify, I meant 2mm's below that line in actual size, so if the photo were life-size, not 2mm's below that line in that picture. The line you drew is a little high(IMHO). The root of E's nose is about midpupil, so well below that,
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If anything (without even taking the mm length into consideration), the landmark line itself for the glabella would tend to be above the line I drew rather than below it. Denton wrote:
Juat to clarify, I meant 2mm's below that line in actual size, so if the photo were life-size, not 2mm's below that line in that picture. The line you drew is a little high(IMHO). The root of E's nose is about midpupil, so well below that,
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The vitruvian man is complex, but there are some definites used for example in the hair transplant industry. the distance from the hairline to the eyebrows is one-third of the length of the face, so in other words distance from the glabella to the chin divided by two.This is all based on the vitruvian man. One of my friends works for a top Beverly Hills hair transplant doctor( he's done celebs like Robin Williams)and he says the doctor uses the measurement on every patient to determine the hairline, with the exception of seniors who have been used to a higher hairline for some time.
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You can certainly use them as guide lines but they are not the be it and end all. PSs tend to use as DICTUM. What I'm saying is that facial balance can go beyond the basic 1/3rd 'rule'.
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I agree. for example eyebrows that sit high - very arched and sit high on the forehead, will make the midface look much longer. while the opposite - low sitting brows will make the midface appear shorter. this is all beyond the standard vitruvian measurements.I noticed on most male models the brows USUALLY sit low and straight across, I am guessing to compensate for a longer midface as compared to the more attractive sex - the female, who typically has a shorter midface.
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Well, ya, on males where the eyebrows sit low, that because that part of the forehead area is advanced forward. When the forehead area supporting eyebrows has a posterior orientation, the eye brows will be found higher. Denton wrote:I agree. for example eyebrows that sit high - very arched and sit high on the forehead, will make the midface look much longer. while the opposite - low sitting brows will make the midface appear shorter. this is all beyond the standard vitruvian measurements.I noticed on most male models the brows USUALLY sit low and straight across, I am guessing to compensate for a longer midface as compared to the more attractive sex - the female, who typically has a shorter midface.
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[quote=MissJ]divided into 3 equal parts equates to a 'beautiful' or 'balanced' face. Best of my knowledge, Leonardo never said that was so.[/quote)
Yes in fact I read somewhere that the 1/3 rule of thumb (nothing more than a rule of thumb) pre-dates davinci by many hundreds of years.
The thing with this rule however is that it also has to be associated with the 1/5 rule for width ect, and then width needs to relate to height.
Personally I find that the 1/3 rule is useful in determining excess lower third length, something which is very common and that I find very unpleasant. Now adjusting the lower third to match the other does not necessarily equate to good looking but having a longer lower third is almost always a recipe for really off or brutish looks.
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