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From your adam.about.com article: "In the active rash stage, shingles may be confused with herpes simplex, particularly in young adults, if the blisters occur on the buttocks or around the mouth. and:
Amber attached the following image(s):
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Got it! It's about as confusing and convoluted as "Chutes and Ladders"! :-) And - dare I beat this topic to death even MORE?! I DID have chicken pox as a kid. I had said previously I have NEVER had a cold sore, tho. So what this means is that I was exposed to the varicella virus as a kid; got the pox. As a result, I have a good likelihood of getting shingles in my future. But having never had a cold sore in my life before my adverse reaction to Valtrex, I was shocked that I now have Herpes Simplex Type I. From what I infer here, I must've been exposed to the virus from someone else at some point in time, but never had an outbreak of cold sores till now - when I was stressed from the laser resurfacing and had my immune system compromised by Valtrex. Double-whammy. Now I'll have to be extra vigilant to prevent any future outbreak. ======================================================================= Amber wrote:Sorry - I didn't mean to type "nowhere can I see HSV-I causing cold sores".
I meant "nowhere can I see HSV-1 being the same virus that causes chicken pox or shingles."
HSV-1 - oral herpes mostly
Varicella-zoster - chicken pox and shingles.
I'd agree - virus culture.
In the article you linked to, it said the 2nd most common site of active shingles was the *neck*. And that it could spread to the mouth. I know you said you've never had chicken pox, but I wonder if you a real mild rash as a child, which wasn't diagnosed, and in fact your neck rash AND your mouth lesions are shingles?
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We posted within seconds of each other. What I think you need to rule out by way of a virus culture is the possibility that you in fact have shingles.
I don't know how representative that pic is of shingles on the neck - they usually show the worst cases - but it is more parsimonious for the neck rash and your mouth lesions to be caused by the same thing.
Did your doc tell you got HSV-1 was the same virus that causes the pox? Cos if so, I'd switch docs.
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I've had shingles and what Bug is describing does not sound like shingles, but HSV1. Could be wrong but I think a culture is a good idea regardless just to be sure. They usually like to get a culture of the fluid in the blisters. This gives the best chance of an accurate culture as to what it is.
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My PS who did the MixTo said the red spots on my neck and chest were skin cells being thrown to the surface, not even any kind of herpes (or shingles). And it looked more like a rash of red pimples far apart from each other. My lip/mouth herpes looks more like these images (um, sans MUSTACHE! That is exactly how my upper lip looked 10 days after MixTo, then it morphed to the upper lip shot shown below):
Bugjune attached the following image(s):
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If our Bug had shingles she would know it. It's wildly painful.
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Shingles can produce some of the worst pain known to humans( excepting bladder cancer and cluster headaches). On the face, especially over the eye area, there seems to be empirical evidence of possible permanent brain damage similar to that of a stroke.
If Bug had shingles, she would indeed have known..
Bug, hang in there. Herpes simplex is unpleasant. Often the first incidence of this is extreme ( maybe such as you experienced) but subsequent outbreaks are usually not so severe. Millions of people carry it.
Herpes zoster is its very nasty cousin.
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Shingles in the eye can cause blindness.
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Shingles mostly run in a straight line, if there is more than one. They follow the path of the nerve since they 'fixate' on the nerve. They freaking HURT, like a tooth ache in your skin, but down DEEEP. Hard to explain unless you've had them. Your hair brushing against them would hurt, just tiny hairs touching one would most likely be excruciating. When I was developing shingles and they finally popped up (had them on my leg and my skin hurt like a MoFo before I ever broke out), they looked like blisters or chicken pox. Then when the biggest one burst, there was a deep hole into my leg like someone drilled a hole in my leg. I only had two or three, but one was larger than the others and looked as I described. My mother had them above her eye when she was undergoing chemo and it was awful. The doc was scared to death she would end up blind, but they stayed on the lid and at the temple area. Being blind was the last thing she needed at the time (while battling terminal cancer). My father also had them on his side. He had the neuralgia for years before the shingles ever popped up. He always called it 'skin pain'. He had about 15 of them that went from a few inches from his naval in a straight line around his torso to within a few inches of his spine. He really suffered too and this was a man who never felt stressed, even when he should have.
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OK. That's cleared that up. The coincidence of the neck rash made me think it was possible. I didn't realise the pain of shingles was always so awful! I knew it could be, but didn't know it always was. I AM going to get the vaccination against it.
But as DCNGA agreed, I still think a virus culture is a good idea.
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I asked my Dr. about it and he said I would have to wait until I reach 60 years of age.
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To all the real-life stories of shingles: GOD'S UNHOLY DEATH. (I apologize for blaspheming on Sunday, but can not imagine a WORSE condition - especially after all the shite I've been through.) Now I'm wondering if I'll have a cold sore left by the time I get in to see a doc this week! GOOD NEWS! I took y'all's advice and got a bottle of L-Lysine yesterday, took one a.m., one p.m. Also got some Abreva cream to put on my lips - that's the only FDA-approved cream that provides proven relief on cold sores. And the beautiful Hungarian aesthetician gave me a sample of nice sunblock with green tea in it that I also put on my lips. They are now so much better that I can open my mouth to FLOSS - yay! And perhaps the beautiful Hungarian's O2 facial also helped - cuz I look much better. Down to racoon eyes (still the new, sandpaper-textured skin under each eye), broken out chin (WTF IS THIS? Sun damaged cells crawling to the surface? More herpes? Dunno.) And my lips are now back down to a normal size and color, and I think I see a cluster of small herpes blisters just on the outer corner of my lips. I could *almost* go out without sunglasses on, but with them on, folks would just think I'm a 54-yr-old ZITTY queen. I want to ask my doc point-blank: Was I exposed to the Herpes Simplex Type I virus at some point in the past, and is that why I got the post-trauma cold sores? Cuz I honestly am wracking my brain to try and recall if ANYONE (boyfriend? sibling? friend?) had a cold sore that I could somehow have come in contact with. I've been with hubby since we were 19, and he's NEVER had an outbreak. So who was it? I've read that skin contact is the only way it's transmitted. But it sure seems conceivable to me that a live virus could exist on a damp towel or some grodey thing for a few hours ...
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It was from the chicken pox you had as a kid, I really believe. The virus just laid dormant at the base of your spine and then attacked your weakened immune system and laid its 'eggs' (metaphor) around your mouth.
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DCNGA wrote:It was from the chicken pox you had as a kid, I really believe. The virus just laid dormant at the base of your spine and then attacked your weakened immune system and laid its 'eggs' (metaphor) around your mouth. No. “…cold sores cannot cause chicken pox or shingles, and chicken pox do not cause cold sores.” Cos they're caused by different herpes viruses. eg http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=303&id=1492HSV-1 - oral herpes Varicella-zoster - chicken pox and shingles IF Bug's lesions are cold sores, she must have been exposed at some point to HSV-1. And it's unusual, but not unheard of, to never have had an outbreak before. And she was really unlucky cos she still had 4 out of what 7? days protection from HSV-1 via the Vile Valtrex. The pox has nothing to do with cold sores. That's one thing that's def that came out of this discussion.
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Sorry, didn't read it all in-depth. Okay, the shingles are caused from the chicken pox virus. Got it. Wiki has a good explanation (although sometimes it's not 100% accurate) but very scientific: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_virusThis one from BBC is also very interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7483832.stm
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1. herpes simplex virus type 1, previously thought to be the cause of ulceration primarily on tne vermillion border of the lip.
2. herpes simplex virus type 2, previously thought to be the cause of ulceration primarily on the genitalia.
Due to obvious sexual practices type 1 and 2 can be found in either location.
3. herpes zoster virus is a type of herpes virus that causes chicken pox. It remains dormant in the dorsal root gangion and if activated causes a painful cluster of ulcerations along the path of the dermatione (nerve root distribution) that is activated. Thus the characteristic "barrel stave" distribution on the trunk, or involvement of the trigeminal nerve with involvement of the 1st branch going to the eye, the 2nd branch going to the cheek or the 3rd going to the jaw.
Secondary complications of Zoster are post herpetic neuralgia - severe pain after healing of the lesions, and less common involvement of the central nervous system.
Testing is I think still via immunofluorescence. Culture is unreliable. In the nervous system PCR (polymerase chain reaction) is used.
So, BUG, what does that mean on your leaf.
a. you don't have zoster/shingles
you won't have post herpetic neuralgia
b. you might not have herpes simplex
the diference between type 1 and 2 is recurrance rate.
if you do have herpes simplex you have probably had it for years and never known and may
never have it again.
Stay calm, have your husband rub your feet and we will all send healing vibes to our favorite bug.
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Whatever sam said ^^^^. She's def the best on this type thing.
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You can be exposed to herpes, show no symptoms, and still be a carrier of the virus and infect others. Many moons ago I had a b/f with herpes. He would call me when he was healed. This went on for quite some time and to this day I have never had any kind of cold sore, and I had chicken pox as a child.
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I know, I KNOW! IT is confusing as a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma - or whatever Churchill spouted! But I am starting to nail this down even more! Turns out that about 80% of us are exposed to the Herpes Simplex Type I virus by AGE 20! Once exposed, we don't necessarily get a cold sore, but like chicken pox, that virus also takes up a happy home in the facial area of our central nervous system. That's why the cold sores appear around the mouth and lips once they are activated. The nerve runs straight back through our face to the neck. More from the NIH: http://tinyurl.com/26cj4tsAccording to the NIH, Herpes Type I CAN be passed via towels, dishes and other objects - not just skin-to-skin. So, I blame my sister. She was one big, dirty BUG. I vaguely remember that she had herpes as a teenager ... but we are no longer on the same radar, so I can't ask her. Maybe my mom will remember? But I have not even told my dear ol' mammy ONE THING. She has no knowledge of the MixTo, drug reaction or my life in hell the past month. She is 85, and I do not want to burden her with ANY negativity till I get more answers and this is resolved. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I think I need to get a LIFE. <:-(O)
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sam wrote:1. herpes simplex virus type 1, previously thought to be the cause of ulceration primarily on tne vermillion border of the lip.
2. herpes simplex virus type 2, previously thought to be the cause of ulceration primarily on the genitalia.
Due to obvious sexual practices type 1 and 2 can be found in either location.
3. herpes zoster virus is a type of herpes virus that causes chicken pox. It remains dormant in the dorsal root gangion and if activated causes a painful cluster of ulcerations along the path of the dermatione (nerve root distribution) that is activated. Thus the characteristic "barrel stave" distribution on the trunk, or involvement of the trigeminal nerve with involvement of the 1st branch going to the eye, the 2nd branch going to the cheek or the 3rd going to the jaw.
Secondary complications of Zoster are post herpetic neuralgia - severe pain after healing of the lesions, and less common involvement of the central nervous system.
Testing is I think still via immunofluorescence. Culture is unreliable. In the nervous system PCR (polymerase chain reaction) is used.
So, BUG, what does that mean on your leaf.
a. you don't have zoster/shingles
you won't have post herpetic neuralgia
b. you might not have herpes simplex
the diference between type 1 and 2 is recurrance rate.
if you do have herpes simplex you have probably had it for years and never known and may
never have it again.
Stay calm, have your husband rub your feet and we will all send healing vibes to our favorite bug. So if Bug doesn't have HSV-1, what are the differential diagnoses? And do you think testing is worthwhile, given its prognostic value and Bug's anxiety?
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