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Offline Robin  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 10, 2020 4:24:35 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 6/7/2008(UTC)
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As I have aged and my skin has thinned somewhat, my once smooth forehead now shows the subtle contour of the forehead bone beneath, which is not a smooth surface. These subtle contours show in side light or down light, and are not fill-able (too shallow, broad and irregular) and are not expression lines. And of course watching it on Zoom calls has made me more conscious of it!

I've been looking into treatments for "skin thickening". Sculptra's not a good modality for the forehead due to the thinness of the skin there. I've been considering professional microneedling (not the at-home stuff). Anyone with experiences to share in general with microneedling on broad areas of the face, and/or with forehead specifically? I realize it will take several visits. There are enough pics out there to suggest it could be effective for this purpose. Of course, not everyone is good about saying how far past the final treatment the "after" pic is so these may still be showing subtle swelling that has yet to diminish.
Offline Chris K  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 10, 2020 5:08:29 PM(UTC)
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Location: miss j's board
Is it the the Thinning subcutaneous layer that shows bone contours? I was having this problem and softened the entire area with fat.

The micro needling I would not think would camouflage that. But it can’t hurt and would only improve skin quality. I think it needs to be done frequently spaced weeks apart to really produce results.


Have you thought about the fibroblasts pen that’s become so popular or renuva?
Offline Robin  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 10:19:10 AM(UTC)
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Yes Chris, it's how you described it on my forehead. it's super subtle and visible only in certain lighting, but i can clearly see the difference from a few years ago

The microneedling does have to be done as a series to produce a cumulative effect.

Funny you should mention fibroblast/plasma. I just had that done around my eyes, upper and lower and so far i'm really impressed. It produces some immediate tightening with the initial damage to the skin, and then allegedly a bit more 8-10 weeks out. The technician I went to does post healed pics 10 weeks + out from clients who return to her for additional treatments, and they look good

I'm about 3 weeks out and waiting to see the full effect, but even with the initial results I am pleased. Like many 'minimally invasive' procedures it's definitely not a substitute for surgery or a deep peel, but for a subtle contraction of crepey eylid skin and overall contours it seems helpful. I will also be having it along my jawline and chin, to attempt to smooth out some more of those subtle shadows that show up in the downlight or sidelight. So I might do the forehead too.
Offline Chris K  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 10:52:29 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 5/17/2008(UTC)
Posts: 8,650
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Location: miss j's board
Something I should share is I had fractional co2 laser on a high setting twice and I believe in areas where the subcutaneous layer was already thin, thinned even more.

I actually purchased the plasma pen and have been fooling around with it. It does work well on crepey skin. After many many procedures I strongly disagree that the “carbon blast” should heal dry. I think every injury to the skin, especially a burn should heal with a protective coating like aquaphor or bacitracin. The company says to let it heal dry so you get maximum scar or fibroblasts as they call it, so it causes maximum contraction.

As far a microneedling have you looked into the morpheus 8 machine that uses microneedling and radio frequency at the same time.
Offline Beholder  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 11:37:05 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 6/2/2014(UTC)
Posts: 174
Thank you for this exciting information. I have crepey skin on the backs of my hands. Has anyone tried the plasma pen or micro needling on hands?
Offline Robin  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 12:49:20 PM(UTC)
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Chris tell me more about your experience with plasma pen. how did you determine which one to buy and how much did you spend? the price range is wide. Where have you done it on yourself? I could see doing my own forehead - I know what numbing cream she used and it's on amazon so I can numb myself. could not do my own eyes though!

I've looked at morpheus8 but i'm still wary of anything with RF. This is my thinking -For some people RF destroys fat, and if I were to do that on my forehead and have fat loss my problem would be worse. What's your thinking there?
Offline Robin  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 12:51:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Beholder Go to Quoted Post
Thank you for this exciting information. I have crepey skin on the backs of my hands. Has anyone tried the plasma pen or micro needling on hands?


Beholder, I believe I recall you are in so cal - the person I went to is based in no cal but has family in so cal and periodically goes there. Her insta is "proudbrow" and her website goes by the same name. check it out and email or text her about back of hands. She recently posted photos of knees! very knowledgeable and skilled.
Online lucillenyc  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2020 6:42:56 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 5/17/2008(UTC)
Posts: 615
Location: San Diego
Originally Posted by: Chris K Go to Quoted Post
Is it the the Thinning subcutaneous layer that shows bone contours? I was having this problem and softened the entire area with fat.


I've been seeing a lot of IG posts about forehead filler using HA fillers. It looks great, but this is such a risky area to inject. Is fat transfer safer?
Offline Chris K  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 2:54:43 PM(UTC)
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Posts: 8,650
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Location: miss j's board
Originally Posted by: Robin Go to Quoted Post
Chris tell me more about your experience with plasma pen. how did you determine which one to buy and how much did you spend? the price range is wide. Where have you done it on yourself? I could see doing my own forehead - I know what numbing cream she used and it's on amazon so I can numb myself. could not do my own eyes though!

I've looked at morpheus8 but i'm still wary of anything with RF. This is my thinking -For some people RF destroys fat, and if I were to do that on my forehead and have fat loss my problem would be worse. What's your thinking there?





I bought the plasma pen by plamiere. it was about 1300 and is considered the best. I buy the 5% numbing on Amazon and its not too bad. I am so particular and this way I can treat every little line or spot without micromanaging the procedure. and if a spot was missed I can go back the next day. you would be surprised how easy it is once you start. I always keep it slathered in bacitracin or aquaphor for the first 5 days. I believe all wounds should be protected while they heal. you can also buy micro needling pens and rollers yourself. I think many of us here know so much that it sort of becomes difficult to find experts because I feel like I know more than they do. so I take their knowledge and my own experience plus a good dash of common sense and then proceed carefully. so many quacks and lousy procedures out there. it keeps evolving so quickly as well. you kinda have to wait a few years after each technology hits the market.


yes I do believe RF technology has inherent fat loss "fringe benefits" so maybe morpheus isn't a good idea.


I'm very intrigued by the science behind RENUVA. if you know anything, please share.
Offline Chris K  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 2:56:51 PM(UTC)
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Location: miss j's board
Originally Posted by: lucillenyc Go to Quoted Post
I've been seeing a lot of IG posts about forehead filler using HA fillers. It looks great, but this is such a risky area to inject. Is fat transfer safer?




I had a really good result with fat to the forehead. my forehead was looking OLD compared to the rest of my face. it took 3 rounds to get it right. the first wasn't enough. the second had spots that didn't take and the 3rd got it right. in the right hands with an experienced surgeon they will know where to avoid vessels. also they use a BLUNT cannula to avoid blood vessel puncture and embolism


the truth is everything is a risk. its best to stick with someone who has lots of experience because they will hopefully made all the dire mistakes earlier in their career. most of these instagram docs look careless to my eye. everyone is so filled. over the cheek bone, along the jawline. its all looking homogenized. beauty is leaving certain imperfections OR deficiencies. everyone looks like a morph now.
Offline Robin  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:14:42 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 6/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
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Originally Posted by: Chris K Go to Quoted Post
I bought the plasma pen by plamiere. it was about 1300 and is considered the best. I buy the 5% numbing on Amazon and its not too bad. I am so particular and this way I can treat every little line or spot without micromanaging the procedure. and if a spot was missed I can go back the next day. you would be surprised how easy it is once you start. I always keep it slathered in bacitracin or aquaphor for the first 5 days. I believe all wounds should be protected while they heal. you can also buy micro needling pens and rollers yourself. I think many of us here know so much that it sort of becomes difficult to find experts because I feel like I know more than they do. so I take their knowledge and my own experience plus a good dash of common sense and then proceed carefully. so many quacks and lousy procedures out there. it keeps evolving so quickly as well. you kinda have to wait a few years after each technology hits the market.


yes I do believe RF technology has inherent fat loss "fringe benefits" so maybe morpheus isn't a good idea.


I'm very intrigued by the science behind RENUVA. if you know anything, please share.



Thanks Chris, so interesting. I may go your route also on buying the pen. What areas have you done yourself? And have you had experience with repeating after the 8-10 weeks have passed for better effect? I can see that I may want that in some areas.

I also am interested in renuva. I was going to go for a consult with someone in my area and then the shelter in place hit... and here we are 8 months later. It's going back on my to-do list :-)
Offline Robin  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 10:16:43 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 3,083
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Originally Posted by: Chris K Go to Quoted Post
I had a really good result with fat to the forehead. my forehead was looking OLD compared to the rest of my face. it took 3 rounds to get it right. the first wasn't enough. the second had spots that didn't take and the 3rd got it right. in the right hands with an experienced surgeon they will know where to avoid vessels. also they use a BLUNT cannula to avoid blood vessel puncture and embolism


the truth is everything is a risk. its best to stick with someone who has lots of experience because they will hopefully made all the dire mistakes earlier in their career. most of these instagram docs look careless to my eye. everyone is so filled. over the cheek bone, along the jawline. its all looking homogenized. beauty is leaving certain imperfections OR deficiencies. everyone looks like a morph now.



Three times! You are very determined Chris!

I agree with the deep experience!
Offline ITALIA  
#13 Posted : Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:25:45 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,175
Location: UK
Who would be best for the forehead?

Chris, Did you see Dr G? Would age be a barrier to seeing certain surgeons considering the level of delegacy required?
Like the OP I've lost volume to my forehead but this extends into my skull where the skin has thinned out which looks bad.
Offline MissJ  
#14 Posted : Sunday, November 15, 2020 11:52:00 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,741
Dr. Sherell Aston in NYC does the morpheos (or what ever it's called). I get his posts/videos on my FB page but just look for a few seconds and then scroll down. But just to say, he does it. With the plasma pen, be careful to NEVER blitz the lines and folds, only burn the areas beside them and don't press down on the thing. Barely touch. Barely touching is what an ARC is all about. Never did it but got a 100% score on some test one of the companies selling the pro-pen gave. But being an MIT grad, I've always done well on theoretical tests. Pragmatically speaking, I jump around too much with any jolt. So, I would not be able to do the plasma pen on myself. As for forehead irregularities. If all else fails. Then, BANGS.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


Offline Hydroxyboy  
#15 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 1:07:58 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 2/28/2009(UTC)
Posts: 556
Location: Amsterdam
And what about Profhilo? I've seen it been used full face and also on the back of the hands to smooth out the overall skin surface. I believe it has less negative side effects traditional fillers could have in an unforgiving area of the forehead. But I have no first hand experience with it. I have done droplets of Restylane in forehead lines with no issues.

I've also done a ton of microneedling and although it does improve the skin quality I did not see any thickening or volumizing of de dermis which is what you are looking for if I understand you well.
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