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Offline Quno  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 7:30:32 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
I'd held the same account for several years and after posting a few relatively tepid comments in defence of another poster (and arguably common sense), I was banned. I know it's for good, as I've been on their hit list since a curious incident a while back, whereby Angie (their chief moderator) fabricated an accusation against me: that I'd made a comment about wanting to kill a plastic surgeon (!) This comment (which was a jokey insinuation as opposed to a death threat) had in fact been made by a different user on a review I'd posted under. It was incredibly bizarre but I was allowed back on the "condition" that one more fuck up would incur a permanent ban.

More recently, I was warned not to comment further on that crazy rhino woman's review, but I did so on another review where her fans were attacking the writer. I can no longer access the email account I used to sign up to RS with, so no idea if they gave me a "reason" or not.

Apart from the inconvenience of being unable to flick through photos or respond to PMs, I'm happy to no longer be a member because it's a scam outfit that thrives upon gross misrepresentation and is micromanaged by a bunch of dweebs from Seattle who don't know shit about PS (and hold those that do in contempt).

I'm guessing that one or more members here have been banned from Realself at least once?

Wonder how long the site will survive before their client base (doctors) finally realise they're being used to create free content for that site whilst being charged for the "privilege" of being there.
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Offline makingchoices  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:10:01 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/19/2010(UTC)
Posts: 190
I'm sorry you are going through that Quno! They (RealSelf) are loosing an educated intelligent voice and member, which you would think they would prefer to encourage rather than repress.
Offline MissJ  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:32:51 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,566
RS has a lot of weird 'rules'. Like one of them is not to challenge the validity of a poster in cases where the poster also takes out a bunch of multi-IDs. So, if someone picks up on the SAME poster using a bunch of screen names (which I guess their mods to look for because, you know, that's MORE posters) and calls them to task, RS will delete the comment but seemingly do little to investigate further. This happened to a member here who also a member there who called into question someone using a bunch of IDs to trash one doctor. To that regard, if a doctor is being trashed by a multi ID patient, RS would rather just sell them a ramped up profile or just use that situation where a doctor who would otherwise not grace their site by participating acquiesces to doing so.

Another thing they do is actually encourage people to leave reviews (for face lifts) EARLY ON in the game when there is still favorable swelling. They also teach (RS 'university') doctors to have their patients do just that. That act flies in the face of how to judge a face lift which is 8 months to a year afterwards.

Then they CORRUPT the term 'top doctor' by appropriating it to mean doctors who give the most responses. I don't even want to say; 'answers the most questions' because not even that is so. Enough of them just have patent responses like; 'See a boarded PS or facial PS' or what ever org they belong to. Like enough of them just COPY AND PASTE the SAME response to a lot of questions just to get noticed.

In your case, you gave an INTELLIGENT response. I know because I looked at it after you told me about it (and also discussed it elsewhere on this site). You noticed that someone was saying: 'My mouth muscles were cut off' and they gave 'proof' of an X ray where the X ray really did NOT show ANY soft tissue and the areas circled as 'proof' where bone junctions. You also pointed out that it was a small nose muscle and NOT a 'mouth muscle' that gets cut and this muscle is NOT a 'mouth' muscle but rather one where the muscle can tether to the lip where the nose can move around too much with mouth movement. You gave an EDUCATIONAL answer in hopes of helping CLUELESS people who would not otherwise have known that the muscle in question was a not a 'mouth' muscle and that X rays DON'T show soft tissue and therefore circling on an X ray BONE JUNCTIONS is not 'proof' of 'mouth muscles being cut'.

My god you were openly contributing an INFORMATIVE response to their public venue and that was a factor in their banning you. IDK. Maybe they want a high population of clueless people.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


If reading these posts has been helpful to you, consider helping out the board by purchasing via my AMAZON PORTAL seen at the top of each page.

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Offline Quno  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:33:25 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by: makingchoices Go to Quoted Post
I'm sorry you are going through that Quno! They (RealSelf) are loosing an educated intelligent voice and member, which you would think they would prefer to encourage rather than repress.


Thanks for your kind words. I wasn't at all educated when I joined the site in 2011, after being sucked in by a PR-hungry doctor who did a lot of online advertising himself. That was the same year I joined this forum too. The problem was that I became more aware as time went on. And concurrently, they (Realself) became far less accommodating.

This is a quote from a 2015 article about Realself and its founder: "There were also message boards like YesTheyreFake.net. But many of these early online communities rewarded frequency of posting, which meant that extreme plastic surgery patients dominated the community."

That's how the Realself founder (Tom Seery) perceived long-term posters on other PS forums. "Frequency of posting" is correlated to an addictive tendency, rather than to an interest in PS and self-education (i.e. the things you actually need to invest some time in if you don't want to end up botched).

If users with a high level of interest in PS are viewed in such a negative light by Realself's FOUNDER (!) then you can bet the majority of their employees have a somewhat disdainful attitude towards the minions who populate their site.
Offline MissJ  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:36:23 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,566
Well, that's what RS rewards for their doctors: FREQUENCY of posting even if they give the same lame patent response and use the copy and paste function for many of their 'answers'. They become RS's 'top doctors'. lol

Originally Posted by: Quno Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for your kind words. I wasn't at all educated when I joined the site in 2011, after being sucked in by a PR-hungry doctor who did a lot of online advertising himself. That was the same year I joined this forum too. The problem was that I became more aware as time went on. And concurrently, they (Realself) became far less accommodating.

This is a quote from a 2015 article about Realself and its founder: "There were also message boards like YesTheyreFake.net. But many of these early online communities rewarded frequency of posting, which meant that extreme plastic surgery patients dominated the community."

That's how the Realself founder (Tom Seery) perceived long-term posters on other PS forums. "Frequency of posting" is correlated to an addictive tendency, rather than to an interest in PS and self-education (i.e. the things you actually need to invest some time in if you don't want to end up botched).

If users with a high level of interest in PS are viewed in such a negative light by Realself's FOUNDER (!) then you can bet the majority of their employees have a somewhat disdainful attitude towards the minions who populate their site.


Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


If reading these posts has been helpful to you, consider helping out the board by purchasing via my AMAZON PORTAL seen at the top of each page.

Sales DIRECTLY from here help defray costs of this board. (Works for US residents only.)
Offline Quno  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:07:42 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
What they do in that regard is extortion. You mentioned elsewhere that they list doctors on their site without prior consent. They're then shoehorned into becoming full-fledged (paying) members once someone trots out a complaint about them. The emails sent to the Egyptian doctor who took issue with that showed how pushy, salesy and crass their doctor-client sales reps really are.

The "Top Doctors" have been sold a bill of goods. They are not writing for their own site, thus they do not "own" their content and are giving it away for free. If you were to hire a qualified expert in a certain field to write something for you (particularly in the finance, legal and medical fields), you would expect to pay at least $100 or more per hour. Yet Realself has many doctors doing this at no cost, and directing potential "leads" to pages that they share with direct competitors (!) To make matters worse, they're charging them a monthly fee for their membership all the while. Generally speaking, it's a bad proposition and they would be better off investing in their own site. And if anything, Realself should be paying THEM - not the other way round.

The ones who are simply copying and pasting have actually got the right idea. Penalties surrounding content cannibalisation (Google) would make the pages with duplicate content far less valuable to Realself than those featuring unique responses.

Despite coming from near-total obscurity, the Harleys and Brays of this world have built themselves a fortune off the back of those swollen after pics. As have the foreign butt lift doctors, the most popular of whom have been responsible for several deaths.

I did not realise RS gave specific "training" on this face lift marketing strategy, though. I know of a woman who asked Bray (in his office) if he had any pics of 1+ year results and he looked as if he was about to faint.

As for that Frankel woman... I knew she was too far gone, but I thought her followers would appreciate the facts. But I didn't anticipate how deluded they were. They certainly want ill-informed and easily manipulated people and that's what they're managing to attract, in droves.

Originally Posted by: MissJ Go to Quoted Post
RS has a lot of weird 'rules'. Like one of them is not to challenge the validity of a poster in cases where the poster also takes out a bunch of multi-IDs. So, if someone picks up on the SAME poster using a bunch of screen names (which I guess their mods to look for because, you know, that's MORE posters) and calls them to task, RS will delete the comment but seemingly do little to investigate further. This happened to a member here who also a member there who called into question someone using a bunch of IDs to trash one doctor. To that regard, if a doctor is being trashed by a multi ID patient, RS would rather just sell them a ramped up profile or just use that situation where a doctor who would otherwise not grace their site by participating acquiesces to doing so.

Another thing they do is actually encourage people to leave reviews (for face lifts) EARLY ON in the game when there is still favorable swelling. They also teach (RS 'university') doctors to have their patients do just that. That act flies in the face of how to judge a face lift which is 8 months to a year afterwards.

Then they CORRUPT the term 'top doctor' by appropriating it to mean doctors who give the most responses. I don't even want to say; 'answers the most questions' because not even that is so. Enough of them just have patent responses like; 'See a boarded PS or facial PS' or what ever org they belong to. Like enough of them just COPY AND PASTE the SAME response to a lot of questions just to get noticed.

In your case, you gave an INTELLIGENT response. I know because I looked at it after you told me about it (and also discussed it elsewhere on this site). You noticed that someone was saying: 'My mouth muscles were cut off' and they gave 'proof' of an X ray where the X ray really did NOT show ANY soft tissue and the areas circled as 'proof' where bone junctions. You also pointed out that it was a small nose muscle and NOT a 'mouth muscle' that gets cut and this muscle is NOT a 'mouth' muscle but rather one where the muscle can tether to the lip where the nose can move around too much with mouth movement. You gave an EDUCATIONAL answer in hopes of helping CLUELESS people who would not otherwise have known that the muscle in question was a not a 'mouth' muscle and that X rays DON'T show soft tissue and therefore circling on an X ray BONE JUNCTIONS is not 'proof' of 'mouth muscles being cut'.

My god you were openly contributing an INFORMATIVE response to their public venue and that was a factor in their banning you. IDK. Maybe they want a high population of clueless people.


Offline Quno  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:14:42 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by: MissJ Go to Quoted Post
Well, that's what RS rewards for their doctors: FREQUENCY of posting even if they give the same lame patent response and use the copy and paste function for many of their 'answers'. They become RS's 'top doctors'. lol





Ironic isn't it! Some give quality answers and it's them I feel sorry for. I did notice that some of these respondents tailed off after a while.

Writing for a site in-between long working days must be a pain. They should be writing for their own websites, not Realself. Or at least writing on a forum where they are not competing with 3-10 competitors on the same page, at no cost to them.
Offline MissJ  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:00:09 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,566
Their new thing is to let NON core doctors (like no core in PS facialPS Dermatology) into the venue if these non cores are SPA OWNERS. They used to preclude them but now you can find a bunch of non core doctors offering fillers, laser etc.

Originally Posted by: Quno Go to Quoted Post
What they do in that regard is extortion. You mentioned elsewhere that they list doctors on their site without prior consent. They're then shoehorned into becoming full-fledged (paying) members once someone trots out a complaint about them. The emails sent to the Egyptian doctor who took issue with that showed how pushy, salesy and crass their doctor-client sales reps really are.

The "Top Doctors" have been sold a bill of goods. They are not writing for their own site, thus they do not "own" their content and are giving it away for free. If you were to hire a qualified expert in a certain field to write something for you (particularly in the finance, legal and medical fields), you would expect to pay at least $100 or more per hour. Yet Realself has many doctors doing this at no cost, and directing potential "leads" to pages that they share with direct competitors (!) To make matters worse, they're charging them a monthly fee for their membership all the while. Generally speaking, it's a bad proposition and they would be better off investing in their own site. And if anything, Realself should be paying THEM - not the other way round.

The ones who are simply copying and pasting have actually got the right idea. Penalties surrounding content cannibalisation (Google) would make the pages with duplicate content far less valuable to Realself than those featuring unique responses.

Despite coming from near-total obscurity, the Harleys and Brays of this world have built themselves a fortune off the back of those swollen after pics. As have the foreign butt lift doctors, the most popular of whom have been responsible for several deaths.

I did not realise RS gave specific "training" on this face lift marketing strategy, though. I know of a woman who asked Bray (in his office) if he had any pics of 1+ year results and he looked as if he was about to faint.

As for that Frankel woman... I knew she was too far gone, but I thought her followers would appreciate the facts. But I didn't anticipate how deluded they were. They certainly want ill-informed and easily manipulated people and that's what they're managing to attract, in droves.





Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


If reading these posts has been helpful to you, consider helping out the board by purchasing via my AMAZON PORTAL seen at the top of each page.

Sales DIRECTLY from here help defray costs of this board. (Works for US residents only.)
Offline MissJ  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:02:47 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,566
RS charges the docs EXTRA to get the competitor's ads off so they don't show up on a doctor's profile.

Originally Posted by: Quno Go to Quoted Post
Ironic isn't it! Some give quality answers and it's them I feel sorry for. I did notice that some of these respondents tailed off after a while.

Writing for a site in-between long working days must be a pain. They should be writing for their own websites, not Realself. Or at least writing on a forum where they are not competing with 3-10 competitors on the same page, at no cost to them.


Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


If reading these posts has been helpful to you, consider helping out the board by purchasing via my AMAZON PORTAL seen at the top of each page.

Sales DIRECTLY from here help defray costs of this board. (Works for US residents only.)
Offline Quno  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:33:58 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by: MissJ Go to Quoted Post
Their new thing is to let NON core doctors (like no core in PS facialPS Dermatology) into the venue if these non cores are SPA OWNERS. They used to preclude them but now you can find a bunch of non core doctors offering fillers, laser etc.





Here's a Medscape article on the subject of PSs and their internet presence:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/744052

"Non-core physicians are effectively expanding their Web presence and are outpacing the growth of plastic surgeons... Patients who fall prey to these providers will likely experience less than optimal outcomes, and they could experience significant complications. Because the layperson does not fully recognize the distinction between these "cosmetic" surgeons and true plastic surgeons, the experiences of these unfortunate patients degrade the public's opinion of our specialty."

By allowing non-core doctors back onto the site, they are also working against the interests of the PSs they claim to represent, as they are now lumped with a bunch of quacks.

Offline Quno  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:54:14 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by: MissJ Go to Quoted Post
RS charges the docs EXTRA to get the competitor's ads off so they don't show up on a doctor's profile.





Interesting and fits in with their overall philosophy. I bet doctors have no idea about that until they pay Realself's subscription fee.

As for the competitors - I was referring specifically to the Q&A pages where several doctors respond to one user's question. Visitors from Google etc. often land on those pages due to the doctors' inclusion of long tail keywords. Any particular doctor who writes a keyword phrase (not by design) in an answer that happens to attract one or more visitors would be far more likely to get "rewarded" for their efforts if they'd written a similar piece on their own website (a blog post, for e.g.). Any visitor would see all the other doctors on that page and may decide to contact a competitor who'd answered the same question.

If I spent a lot of time writing on a website with the sole purpose of attracting customers to my business, I wouldn't want my competitors to be writing similar or better stuff than me on the same page. It makes no sense at all, but I'm sure Realself have spun it and made out that their site is special and uses ultra-advanced lead generation methods, etc., when it most certainly does not.
Offline MissJ  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 11:02:37 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,566
I think they land on Google when someone is looking up the SAME question that the patient is asking.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


If reading these posts has been helpful to you, consider helping out the board by purchasing via my AMAZON PORTAL seen at the top of each page.

Sales DIRECTLY from here help defray costs of this board. (Works for US residents only.)
Offline Quno  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, February 14, 2018 11:21:26 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by: MissJ Go to Quoted Post
I think they land on Google when someone is looking up the SAME question that the patient is asking.


Yes, the visitor could land on a Realself page after typing a similar question into a public search engine. But Google bots index all text-based content on a page, including the "alt tags" for images and videos that can only be seen in the page skeleton (HTML).

When searching for techniques associated with procedures or, in particular, corrective work for a particular procedure, a long tail keyword will likely be included in the visitor's question or used on its own.

Just put this to the test and searched for "lip lift scar remove". I got part of an RS doctor's answer as the first result, with the highlighted words in the meta description:

"Without seeing a picture of the scar (at rest and smiling) it is impossible to gauge the features of your upper lip scar. Knowing the features that.."

That indicates how that page was ranked as #1 in search due to that doctor's use of long tail keywords, or to be more accurate, LSI (latent semantic indexing). The same can also happen with questions (that form RS's page titles) and a high ranking does depend on other factors... but for very targeted and specific topics, keyword rich text is the main thing that matters.
Offline MissJ  
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:13:20 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,566
Although my knowledge is limited as to how those things work, it makes sense how you explain it simply because more often than not, when I'm googling for info, it often calls up RS doctor 'answered' Q's. It's kind of frustrating because I FORGOT what the directions were for Googling something where you DON'T want a site that often to always comes up when you google it. That is to say, when I'm Googling for med info, I'm NOT looking for RS doctor responses.


Originally Posted by: Quno Go to Quoted Post
Yes, the visitor could land on a Realself page after typing a similar question into a public search engine. But Google bots index all text-based content on a page, including the "alt tags" for images and videos that can only be seen in the page skeleton (HTML).

When searching for techniques associated with procedures or, in particular, corrective work for a particular procedure, a long tail keyword will likely be included in the visitor's question or used on its own.

Just put this to the test and searched for "lip lift scar remove". I got part of an RS doctor's answer as the first result, with the highlighted words in the meta description:

"Without seeing a picture of the scar (at rest and smiling) it is impossible to gauge the features of your upper lip scar. Knowing the features that.."

That indicates how that page was ranked as #1 in search due to that doctor's use of long tail keywords, or to be more accurate, LSI (latent semantic indexing). The same can also happen with questions (that form RS's page titles) and a high ranking does depend on other factors... but for very targeted and specific topics, keyword rich text is the main thing that matters.


Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


If reading these posts has been helpful to you, consider helping out the board by purchasing via my AMAZON PORTAL seen at the top of each page.

Sales DIRECTLY from here help defray costs of this board. (Works for US residents only.)
Offline Jane2222  
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:24:36 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/26/2016(UTC)
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by: makingchoices Go to Quoted Post
I'm sorry you are going through that Quno! They (RealSelf) are loosing an educated intelligent voice and member, which you would think they would prefer to encourage rather than repress.
I agree. A real shame. I know of one other person who was banned for silly reasons.

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