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Offline foxeskier  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:32:13 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Illinois
I would recommend you use the P&R Classic or P&R w/ retinol to start. Also buy the LacSal and Emu. Go slow in the beginning - strong stuff. give your LacSal 30 minutes after applying before putting anything on it. Or use it in the PM and use the CPs in the AM.

If you are going to use the retinoid, do the same - but give your retinoid a longer wait if you can. You dont even need the LacSal w/ the retinoid, so try the retinoid at night and the CPs in the AM. Emu oil after the CPs.
Offline lillian  
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:45:23 AM(UTC)
Rank: Unapproved: write to MissJ521@aol.com for approval

Joined: 8/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 306
Location: NYC


Hi!

I just ordered the P&R w/ retinol, emui oil,triduction how ever you spell it and the cleanser. I told her I have been using retin a for past couple of years now and she told me glad i mentioned this to her. She didn't recommend the exfol since I am already using retin a she said this may even thin my skin more.


thanks
Offline DCNGA  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:19:59 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 7,139
Woman
Hi,Foxesskier. I have a question re: CPs. They have not worked as well for me as I had hoped, BUT I have enough left to try it in a body lotion concoction. I just read on another website where they are combining CoQ10 with CPs for a body lotion. So, I was thinking of doing a DIY with the CPs I have left & CoQ10 I have, to use on my chest neck and arms. Do you know if the CoQ10 would adversely affect the CPs?

Thanks!

D
Offline foxeskier  
#19 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2008 9:32:13 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Illinois
DCNGA wrote:
Hi,Foxesskier. I have a question re: CPs. They have not worked as well for me as I had hoped, BUT I have enough left to try it in a body lotion concoction. I just read on another website where they are combining CoQ10 with CPs for a body lotion. So, I was thinking of doing a DIY with the CPs I have left & CoQ10 I have, to use on my chest neck and arms. Do you know if the CoQ10 would adversely affect the CPs?

Thanks!

D


I don't know about that. I do know that Skin Bio has CcoQ10 in their Emu Oil. Give it a try.

Also, D - how long have you been using the CPs now? It hasn't been more than a few months, has it?
Offline DCNGA  
#20 Posted : Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:54:27 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 7,139
Woman
It was over two months, Foxes. I know, likely not enough time, but my problem was that my DIY stuff has a lot of ingredients that conflict with the CPs. I had to make a choice (as the DIY products have made my skin so much better) about what to use (as I'm admittedly lazy) daily/regularly. I have a hard time, remembering what day to use what and what not to use. I think that, given time, the CPs may have helped, but you have dedicated a lot of time to exfoliation that I knew I would never do (dermaroller and various topical exfoliators). It was a choice of what I know works for me vs investing time in something that may or may not have worked for me (especially since I'm lazy and would not spend the time on added exfoliation).

I did some reading on the Skin Bio site and they do put CoQ10 in one of their CP products, so I think it will be fine. I'm more concerned these days with my hands and forearms, than my face as I'm planning on professional TCA with my derm in mid-December.

Thanks for your help and advice with the CPs--you were more than knowledgeable and hepful.

D
Offline annie  
#21 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2008 9:57:30 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 430
I've been using the CPs now for about 4 or 5 months. Tri-reduction creme in the am and lacsal in the pm. Twice a week using retin a in the pm instead. I had a facelift 13 months ago and was looking for a little more skin tightening. My skin is normal (not oily or dry) and not sensitive. I have not yet seen any results. I think I probably need to give the super cop a try. I have never had any reaction or uglies with the Tri-reduction. I have noticed that I now seem to have some blackheads (more like light green heads!) on my nose & I have never had that problem in my life, so I must assume it is the copper. Not so bad as to deter me from using it though. I LOVE the LacSal. It is a beautiful cream. Not sure if I am getting any results, but it does tingle a tiny bit (feels good!) when I use it. It is SO very nice and definitely affordable, so I will definitely not stop using it. The Tri-reduction was also affordable, but the super cop & super cop 2x is quite a bit more expensive. Actually, my skin is so "not" sensitive, I could probably go straight to the 2x, but I know Fox would advise against that, so I'll try super cop first.
Offline foxeskier  
#22 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2008 12:43:25 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Illinois
annie wrote:
I've been using the CPs now for about 4 or 5 months. Tri-reduction creme in the am and lacsal in the pm. Twice a week using retin a in the pm instead. I had a facelift 13 months ago and was looking for a little more skin tightening. My skin is normal (not oily or dry) and not sensitive. I have not yet seen any results. I think I probably need to give the super cop a try. I have never had any reaction or uglies with the Tri-reduction. I have noticed that I now seem to have some blackheads (more like light green heads!) on my nose & I have never had that problem in my life, so I must assume it is the copper. Not so bad as to deter me from using it though. I LOVE the LacSal. It is a beautiful cream. Not sure if I am getting any results, but it does tingle a tiny bit (feels good!) when I use it. It is SO very nice and definitely affordable, so I will definitely not stop using it. The Tri-reduction was also affordable, but the super cop & super cop 2x is quite a bit more expensive. Actually, my skin is so "not" sensitive, I could probably go straight to the 2x, but I know Fox would advise against that, so I'll try super cop first.


Hi annie - you could go straight for the TriReduction w/ no irritation? WOW! You could probably move up to the Super Cop with out trouble. I'd think, tho, for more results, you could try a stronger exfoliative. Or, try the LacSal twice a day or do both twice a day. I can now use the SC2X with out any problem on my face, but I still just use it for spot touchups. The spots are just a bit bigger than they use to be is all. And I will use it along w/ the Super CP Serum (spot treating after I use the SCP all over).

What are you looking for in results since you say you haven't seen much?

--foxeskier
Offline annie  
#23 Posted : Sunday, December 7, 2008 1:35:45 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 430
Fox,
Well, I decided to try the skin biology cps after reading your very first post about how you were seeing some subtle skin remodeling going on. I think you mentioned some skin tightening around your eyes and maybe other areas. Although my jawline and neck are very clean now after the F/L, I still have a little bit of loose skin on either side of my mouth that could stand to be slightly tighter (not much). I also have one eyelid that, depending on how tired I am, isn't as tight as I wish. I was hopeful that I would see that tighten up like you had.
Do you think a stronger exfoliative would help with the skin tightening? If so, what would you recommend?
Thanks, Annie
Offline kim  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:04:26 PM(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/31/2008(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: va
Foxeskier, I see that you use a low ph cleanser. How would I know if the cleanser I am using has a low ph? What are you using?

Edited by user Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:39:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline foxeskier  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:52:37 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Illinois
annie wrote:
Fox,
Well, I decided to try the skin biology cps after reading your very first post about how you were seeing some subtle skin remodeling going on. I think you mentioned some skin tightening around your eyes and maybe other areas. Although my jawline and neck are very clean now after the F/L, I still have a little bit of loose skin on either side of my mouth that could stand to be slightly tighter (not much). I also have one eyelid that, depending on how tired I am, isn't as tight as I wish. I was hopeful that I would see that tighten up like you had.
Do you think a stronger exfoliative would help with the skin tightening? If so, what would you recommend?
Thanks, Annie


Sorry annie - I didn't see your post until now. If you're looking for treating the eyes - remember that they are very delicate and it takes a very long time to see results for these - up to a year. I've used the GHK, Night Eyes Premier and am now on Night Eyes. Each move up caused some 'uglies' and additional improvement. They just require patience.
I still see improvements going on after 9 mos. Quite cool, actually! I've never used an exfoliative on the eye area, but just recently - would occasionally wipe the remainder of my Retin A from my fingers (after applying it to my face) on the upper lids above the crease. Not often, tho. When I did, I would notice some peeling there. I'm hoping that will give me more improvements, but I want to take things cautiously.

For the other area, why don't you try the Retin A in the PM and the LacSal in the AM? Then use the CPs after you've waiting at least 30 minutes after the LacSal or Retin A (an hour is better for the Retin A). Also, you could try the CPs twice a day and see if that helps any. And - do you use any Emu Oil? That helps to push the CPs in. something else to try.

Good luck.
Offline foxeskier  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:55:14 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Illinois
kim wrote:
Foxeskier, I see that you use a low ph cleanser. How would I know if the cleanser I am using has a low ph? What are you using?


Try this list - it might help. You can also buy some pH strips to test your cleanser (has to be used on a wet substance) or ask the mfg'r.

AHAVA Soaps 5.5
Alpha Hydrox Foaming Face Wash 6.1-6.5
Alpha Hydrox Optimum Series Moisturizing Cleanser 6.3-6.5
Beauty Without Cruelty Vitamin C Cleanser 6.0-6.5
Burt’s Bees Tomato, Carrot, and Lettuce soaps 10
Camay Soap 9.5
Camocare Gold Light Foaming Cleanser 6.5-7.0
Cellex-C Betaplex Cleanser 5.0-5.5
Cetaphil cleanser 6.7
Dermalogica Exfoliants: 3.4-3.9
Dermalogica The Bar 5.5
Dermalogica Dermal Clay Cleanser 6.2
Dial Soap (liquid and bar) 9.5
Diana Yvonne Green Tea Cleanser 5.4
Diana Yvonne Pearlescent 5.5
Diana Yvonne Rose Hip Cleanser 5.5
Dove Bar, Baby Dove Bar 7
Dr. Bonner Liquid Soaps 8
Earth Science Clarifying Facial Wash 5.0-5.5
Earth Science ADE Creamy Cleanser 5
Earth Science Apricot Facial Scrub Cream 5
Earth Science Aloe-Gel Cleanser Liquid 5
Ecco Bella Normal/Oily Cleanser 6.5-7.0
Exederm 5.5
GlyTone Mild Cream Wash 3.4%GA, 3.5
GlyTone Mild Gel Wash 4.7% GA, 3.8
GlyTone Wipe Away Cleanser 7.8% GA, 3.8
Irish Spring Soap 9.5
Ivory Soap 9.5
Jevelle Magick Clear Gentle Apricot Scrub 5
Johnson & Johnson Head to Toe Baby Wash 6.5-7.0
Johnson & Johnson 5.5
Lever 2000 9
MD Forte Cleansers pH 3.8
MD Forte Facial Cleanser II 15%GA 3.8
MD Formulations Sensitive Skin Cleanser 4.4
MD Formulations Basic Facial Cleanser 5.5
MD Formulations Oily/Problem Cleanser 3.8
Neutrogena Deep Clean Facial Cleanser 3.8-4.6
Neutrogena Deep Clean Cream Cleanser 2.8-3.8
Neutrogena Deep Clean Cleansing Cloths N/A
Neutrogena Extra Gentle Cleanser 5.6-6.2
Neutrogena Extra Gentle Cleansing Bar 6.0-7.5
Neutrogena Facial Cleansing Bar Original Formula 8.7-9.2
Neutrogena Fresh Foaming Cleanser 6.2-6.9
Liquid Neutrogena 8.7-9.1
Neutrogena Pore Refining Cleanser 3.7-4.2
Neutrogena Cleansing Bar for Acne-Prone Skin 8.7-9.2
Neutrogena Oil-Free Acne Wash 3.6-4.4
Neutrogena Oil-Free Acne Wash Cream Cleanser 3.6-4.4
Neutrogena Oil-Free Acne Wash Foam Cleanser 3.5-4.2
Nutribiotic Non-soap skin cleansers 5.3-5.7
Olay Foaming Face Wash - 6.85-7.36
Olay Foaming Face Wash - Sensitive Skin 6.6 - 7.35
Olay Emollient Cleansing Lotion 6.0 - 7.2
Olay ADS Daily Renewal Cleanser 2.9 - 3.25
Olay ProVital Revitalizing Cleanser 2.9 - 3.25
Olay Daily Facials Normal/Dry 6.9 (when wet)
Olay Daily Facials Normal/Oily 7.6 (when wet)
Palmolive soap 10
Paula’s Choice (all formulations) 5.5
Physician's Choice pHaze1: Facial Wash 5%AHA 6.0
Physician's Choice pHaze1: Facial Wash oily/problem 7%AHA 5.0
Purpose Facial Cleanser 6.5-7.0

Offline Miranda  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:46:35 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Los Angeles
Does anyone know how much more copper peptides skin biology cp's have in it rather than Neutrogena's copper peptide?

I have been using Neutrogena CP for about 2 weeks and haven't noticed a difference.

Thank u.
Offline MissJ  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, December 30, 2008 11:28:44 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,768
Don't have a clue as to how much more but I think SB's is more intensive.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


Offline foxeskier  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:44:48 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 166
Location: Illinois
Miranda wrote:
Does anyone know how much more copper peptides skin biology cp's have in it rather than Neutrogena's copper peptide?

I have been using Neutrogena CP for about 2 weeks and haven't noticed a difference.

Thank u.


SB's CPs are a lot stronger than the Nuetrogena line. The Visibly Firm product has the GHK technology in it which is the first generation CPs. It's a good product, but SB's newer 2nd generation CPs are a lot stronger. Dr. P says this about the Nuetrogena CPs:

Neutrogena sells a Visibly Firm product line based on GHK-copper. Neutrogena presented several papers on these creams at the American Academy of Dermatology in 2002. Most of these results were known and published in 1988 by Pickart and colleagues.

CP Serum has about 8 times more copper peptide. The peptides are more breakdown resistant and adhere better to the skin. GHK is quite fragile.

If you aren't seeing much happening w/ the Visibly Firm product, maybe you can switch to something from Skin Bio. You should also use an exfoliant for best results (and, of course, observe wait times w/ pH sensitive products like exfoliants). I've gotten excellant results using a retinoid (Retin A or Tazorac), plus a 2% BHA and the CPs. I've gone slowly introducing the CPs since they are very strong. I also added Emu oil for additional product penetration, but held off on it for a long time (thought my oily skin would not like it, but I was wrong). Most ppl don't need both a retinoid and an exfoliant like a BHA or AHA, but I have seriously clogged skin and can handle both of these. I would recommend using just one.


Edited to add:

2 weeks is also not a very long time to try a product. CPs take a while to work, even the very strong ones. You do need patince w/ these. They are not the instant gratifiers like lasers or peels.

Edited by user Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:29:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Miranda  
#30 Posted : Saturday, January 10, 2009 6:31:07 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Location: Los Angeles
Hi foxeskier - How long before cp's start working? What kind of results should I see?
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