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Offline Beholder  
#1 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2015 1:53:43 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/2/2014(UTC)
Posts: 151
Anyone heard of Dr. David Harley from Ashville NC? He does this mini type lift and has such outstanding reviews that I can't quite belive it that he doesn't have one negative review. That puts me on guard. The procedure is relatively quick and inexpensive so that leaves me wondering. I've been told that these mini lift/short scar procedures don't hold up.

Has anyone had the Biltmore lift with Dr. H? Has it held up?


www.harleymd.com/mini-lift.shtm
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Offline Nim  
#2 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2015 3:03:10 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 5/28/2009(UTC)
Posts: 947
The Biltmore Lift is a minimally invasive lift, sometimes called a mini lift. Docs will tell you a minimally invasive lift is not going to last as long as a more invasive lift, all things being equal, like the skill of the surgeon. And you cannot, and I repeat cannot, go by after photos that are taken 6 weeks or 3 months post surgery. THAT is NOT a RESULT. That is a swollen face, and if the lift is halfway desent, the person will probably look very good.

See what the lift looks like at a year and then you can decide if the result of a Biltmore Lift is what you would be happy with.....or any lift for that matter.
Skygirl5 from MMH
Offline MissJ  
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2015 12:29:30 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,607
Obviously, he pays to be a 'featured doctor' in New Beauty rag mag. He also pays for fake 'news' type interviews (his You Tube video). In the venue of mini lift with trademark type name in absence of time stamps on 'after' photos.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


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Offline Beholder  
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2015 2:02:59 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/2/2014(UTC)
Posts: 151
Yes, my gut knew all that. The good ones dont need to make up fancy brand names and marketing gimmicks. The honest ones will tell you mini lift means mini results. I just wanted to get first hand opinions because he says he goes into the smas layer so it seemed like it could potentially be longer lasting
Offline Zoey  
#5 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2015 9:25:46 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,560
I have been very skeptical of his
positive reviews on Realself sometimes one a day. LOL. 88 reviews!!
http://www.realself.com/...-Surgeon/david-harley-md
Offline Zoey  
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 10:24:56 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,560
BTY,
Not sure how he is doing it, but almost on a weekly basis, he has a new patient posting their results. And his patients are flying in from all over the US. Incredible marketing.
Offline MissJ  
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 11:56:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,607
There is (an almost shack like) single family house in the background of his photo. Does he perform the surgery from there, lol? Funny photo to have in the background for a 'Biltmore' lift when 'Biltmore' is associate with a GRAND hotel. LOL.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


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Offline MissJ  
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 1:30:58 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,607
Here are some more observations:

His You Tube video (linked from his site) is a PAID INFOMERCIAL. It's one of those things that gives appearance that a 'news caster' is 'interviewing' him and he has been 'invited' to appear on a show. It's a PAID infomercial where he pays a promo service. On the small chance it's not a paid infomerical, it could be something orchestrated by him. But it's not really a broadcast 'TV program'.

He AVOIDS giving a time line for how EARLY the post ops are. Those type of 'no general anesthesisa' surgeries done in the office are usually done with LOCAL lidocaine where the VOLUME of it, in addition to some PO SWELLING make the face look a LOT better than it's going to look later down the line. That is a RED FLAG for exploiting what they call the 'honeymoon phase' of a face lift when it's really the FAVORABLE DIFFUSE SWELLING and/or extra lidocaine VOLUME that's kicking up the 'great results'.

He touts being a 'New Beauty' magazine expert and being selected as having the best before and after photos. However, one PAYS ADVERTISING to be featured in NB and it is UNCLEAR whether or not NB has good standards regarding time frames for post ops. The HIGHER standard for post ops for PEERS to accept them is about 8 months to a year post op. NB is a mag where docs can MARKET and ADVERTISE themselves to patients. It does not have standards of peer review journal.

Plenty of great reviews on Real Self. Frequent and plentiful reviews on RS are not a good guideline when it ALSO can be observed that the doctor is 'working it' via INFOMERCIALS, payed advertising and AVOIDANCE of listing the time frame of when a post op was taken. Couple that with the FACT that he has his patients fill out a FORM as to how satisfied they are with him. So, he's 'prompting' for reviews. Although enough PSs prompt or push patients to lodge a (good) review for them now a days because that is the 'new marketing', the HIGHER STANDARD for reviews is when the doc is really not pushing or prompting for them, isn't showing infomercials over YouTube and isn't avoiding giving a TIME LINE for how long after the procedure the post ops are.

Conclusion: Real Self promoed doctors do not all meet the High Standards Miss J would advocate her readers to look for when entertaining a doctor.


Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


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Offline Zoey  
#9 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 2:23:16 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,560
A few months ago I called the office to see if his "biltmore" lift is a SMAS lift and they never called me back. I would never go to him but I am amazed at how many women are going to him.
Offline Mike D  
#10 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 2:51:00 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 3,095
Location: Between the moon and NYC
Also keep in mind that some docs say that they operate on the SMAS layer (or some just keep it vague and say they work on the muscles under the skin), but all SMAS lifts aren't equal: There is the type of SMAS lift like Marten and others do, where a large incision is made in the SMAS, it is extensively undermined, lifted and the excess is trimmed; there is a simpler SMASectomy, like Baker in NYC made popular, in which a smaller piece of SMAS is cut out in more or less a small rectangular piece and the edges of that are sewn together; then there are many variations of a simple SMAS plication, in which the SMAS is more or less left intact but just "folded onto" itself using a running suture.

Most of these quick, easy!recovery branded-type lifts are plication lifts. Much simpler to perform, but many times they don't last. I've read Baker say that for some face types they are ideal, and that would be debatable by other surgeons.

While those plication lifts are simpler and safer, the results can be just as disastrous as a more invasive lift gone wrong and sometimes at best, they are disappointing after a few years.

Edited by user Sunday, April 17, 2016 10:43:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Zoey  
#11 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 4:12:20 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 12/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,560
Thanks Mike for that great explanation!!
Offline Mike D  
#12 Posted : Sunday, April 17, 2016 10:56:40 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 3,095
Location: Between the moon and NYC
My pleasure. More to add: There is also SMAS imbrication, in which the SMAS is folded onto itself after some excision and undermining. It's a "step up" from plication in some docs view, and is sometimes incorporated into other SMAS -type lifts.

There are valued arguments that the type of lift doesn't necessarily matter as much as the surgeon and the surgeon choosing the right procedure for the patient. Certain of the above techniques can narrow a face and certain can widen. The wrong one on the wrong patient can look bad. Yet at the end of the day, can you really know if a patient who looks ok, eh, or bad because of the technique the surgeon used, or the surgeon himself, or the patient herself? There are so many variables to consider. All I know is that many of these branded procedures show the patient very early on, with beneficial swelling and makeup and a smile, so it's hard to determine if it's good or bad. You!ll know a good loft when you see it 3 years later still looking good.

Interesting article, although some around here don't care for the author: http://www.psisf.com/pdf/AllureArticle.pdf
Offline MissJ  
#13 Posted : Monday, April 18, 2016 6:59:24 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Joined: 5/14/2008(UTC)
Posts: 26,607
There are many ways the SMAS can be manipulated and moved around in different directions. For the most part of it, the type of lifts that this doc is doing (genre of 'quick lift', mini type lift, Lifestyle lifts--lifts that have some kind of trade name and appeal of fast recovery, local anesthesia, modest cost etc.) use a purse string suture through the SMAS.
Miss J. Seeing eye companion to the aesthetically blind since 1998.


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Offline lamb  
#14 Posted : Monday, April 18, 2016 7:48:01 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,203
Mike, what are the techniques can make the face narrower or wider?

Also, what do you think about folding of the SMAS on the cheek area to provide a bit of augmentation? Not sure what the medical term is for that is exactly.

Edited by user Monday, April 18, 2016 10:53:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Mike D  
#15 Posted : Monday, April 18, 2016 10:17:33 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 3,095
Location: Between the moon and NYC
Originally Posted by: lamb Go to Quoted Post
Mike, what are the techniques can make the face narrower or wider?

Also, what do you think about folding of the SMAS on the cheek area to provide a bit of augmentation? Not, sure what the medical term is for that is exactly.


In general, a surgeon can make a face somewhat narrower by removing excess SMAS (and also by removing excess skin). Assuming that there isn't much excess skin, removing SMAS can make a face narrower (it did for me, as well). When a surgeon does a formal SMAS lift, he/she can trim the excess SMAS or roll it over itself and suture it into place for more volume in the cheeks. Stuzin does this as part of his lift, as do others. I think that imbrication (or "stacking" the SMAS layer can also achieve a similar effect, and to a lesser extent, so can plication (again sometimes not as long term).

On this topic, Rohrich (top doc-type/former ASAPS president)says: "For example, control of facial volume can be achieved by removing SMAS tissue in patients with shorter and wider faces, or may be increased to show more fullness by stacking the layer upon itself in patients with longer, narrower faces."

And Baker says: "The width of SMAS resection depends upon the fullness of the patients face and if de-bulking is advantageous. IN THIN FACE PATIENTS SMASECTOMY IS NOT PERFORMED IN ORDER TO PRESERVE FACIAL FAT. SMAS plication is performed in these patients to augment and sculpt the face."

Here's the article that quote was taken from. It's written in layman' terms and is a good history of the SMAS and how it has been addressed: http://boletim.med.br/bo...es/artigos_ver.php?id=32
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